Tigers Recent Cuts
Caleb Fantillo (16)
Marshall Skapski (16)
Ryan Jevne
Current Roster (27 players, 2 Over Max, 2 Extra overagers)
October 10th Cut-down Date
Current Forwards(14)
(Just for depth purposes, basic Line Combos, don't read into it)
Sanford(19) Cox(19) Koules(20)
Eisenschmid(19) Ast(19) Butcher(18)
Penner(18) Owre(18) Bradley (17)
Labelle(19) Mowbray(18) Shaw(16)
Fischer(17)
Rassal (17)
Miles Koules is headed to the Washington Camp.
Forward Cuts Left: 0
It is unlikely they make another cut up front unless they bring in someone in through trades.
Current Defense(10)
(Just for depth purposes, basic Line Combos, don't read into it)
Kyle Becker(20)* Matt Staples(19)
Connor Hobbs(17) Scott Allan(18)
David Quenneville(16) Ty Schultz(17)
Brad Forrest(17)
Tyler Lewington(20) (At Camp) *Estimate a last minute addition to be back to start season
Ty Stanton(19) (At Camp) * Estimate to be back to start season
Tommy Vannelli(19) (At Camp) *Unknown return
Defensive Cuts Left: 2-3
They have 3 dman away at camps, so its possible we don't see another cut until these guys return, as another cut would leave them short. Eventually one defensive overager is highly likely to be gone.
It's likely the Tigers hold on to the overagers until who is coming back is known, unless another team ramps up a bid on a guy like Becker.
Tommy Vannelli -Most likely will not be back to start the season. They will probably give him a long look and the Tigers season starts near when AHL camps begin. If he comes back it is likely after the season started as I doubt they assign him directly back to the Tigers but instead to the AHL first.
Tyler Lewington - We should put an asterisk beside him. It is unusual that a player will decline an offer. My best guess is that he was offered the league minimum and Washington has 8 guys under a 1 way contract in the NHL and another 9 guys signed in the minors and if he accepted he would be automatically buried in their farm team with limited ice-time if Washington moved him up.(8 guys on the last year of their deal) so he could probably get a much better overall deal waiting a year and signing the next.) Without a contract I think it is likely that he will be assigned to the Tigers instead of the AHL and be back to start the season.
Goaltenders(3)
Jared Rathjen(20)
Nick Schneider(17)
Mark Langhamer 20)
I think Langhamer will be back based on how many goalies Arizona has after their NHL camp is done. If he gets sent down to the AHL to compete for a job it may take a few weeks after the season started before he is back, but they have 5 goalies competing for AHL spots, including Langhamer. With Langhamer's contract eligible to slide it just makes sense if they send him back down to junior so he can be the #1 and get 60 games in rather, than getting 5-12 games in the ECHL, or even a 3rd tiered league like the CHL (not canada's CHL).
Pre-Season Prediction
In both cases overall their forwards are quite small and its hard to estimate on what type of impact this will have on game flow if at all. Their forwards have an average size of 5'9.85 176.6 lb.
Compared to last years league average size of 6.05 inches and 187 lbs.
I did an incredibly rough conservative player to player estimate projection on how many goals each player can/should get and I peg them to score roughly the same amount of goals as a team as they did last year. Bump them down a notch do to their small size up front but bump them back up if Vannelli and his skating returns. They could definitely use a solid big bodied player to score some garbage goals.
Predictions pre-season are a crapshoot
If Vannelli and Langhamer are gone
Goaltending is average, defense is above average but youthful. I would estimate a 4th-7th regular season finish.
Vannelli and Langhamer Back
Their defense and goaltending will be near if not the class of the league. I estimate a 2nd-6th place reg season finish.
58 comments:
So generally anyone 19 and lower are usually returned because they don't want their prospects missing game with their junior teams. They are usually returned
1. Right after pre-season prospect camps (sept 12-16)
2. First/Second Round of Cuts a few days after Main Camps starts (19th-22nd)
Stanton being a FA tryout is likely to be back 5-6 days before the season starts even if he gets signed cause he can't play in the AHL. If they are on the fence about signing him and want a longer look he may miss the first weekend but that is rare.
Lewington being a Drafted player could very well slide into slot 2 and miss the opening weekend, but probably partial to the whl season starting, and not being signed..he could be a last minute plane ride in to start the season.
Vannelli Is a different story. He is likely to compete for an AHL roster spot. AHL Main Camps start the week after the Tigers season starts. AHL season starts on October 11thish.... So its likely he will miss the start unless the Blues somehow sign him back to the Tigers directly which seems unlikely but possible.
They could hold onto him a few games in to the season...So If he comes back really it could be anywhere from the start of the season till the end of october.
Looking strictly at the 20 year olds, if Lewington and Langhammer return they are locks along with Koules. I don't see the team keeping Becker around in any scene rio because of the talent with the young guys.
Exactly the picture I was trying to paint. Unless the very unlikely scenario of Lewington and Langhamer being kept in the pro's happens
If Hefley from Kelowna comes available we could use him to help Lewington enforce this year!!
I like the look of the defence that you have listed. I know those may not be lines but have to say, I think Hobbs can easily step into a 2nd line role and can also handle some power play and penalty kill time. Such a talented guy.
Interested to see what Bradley will put up for numbers. I thought he was ready last year. Might be a guy who puts up decent numbers for his first year.
I actually like the combo of that 3rd line you have. Would be a fun, hard working and creative line. Hope they try that out.
Love Penner, thought he was an unsung hero last year. Put up fine numbers but is so responsible in the defensive end while playing with some physical presence and blocking shots. Good all round player.
If Lewington isn't back they should go for Cote on the Royals mean physical Dman
Yikes, forwards are really really small. I like playing small guys who are fast but I also think we need a strong and tall power forward, even if he does not add a whole lot of goals but is able to create space. If Vanelli doe snot return then I kinda hope they trade Becker (partially because I think Hobbs can fill his shoes) and get a bigger guy up front.
HOpe they keep Rassell. I thought he looked real good out there.
Went to practice to watch and Rathjen is not on the ice. What is going on there? Is he hurt?
Was Rassal a signed or drafted player? Do not see his name in the draft history.
The Tigers list of protected players is in the small thoughts at large site
looks like jevne is a late cut.
My favorite line was Koules,Ast, and Markus E...Beast mode speed kills!!
Keeping Fischer, really? Thought he was less talented and less puck hungry then all the remaining players. Maybe keeping him because he is 17 and not obligated to give him games. Not sure but strange to keep him.
Too bad, liked Jevne. Guess can only have so many 16 year olds. These late cute give us a good idea who will be on the team next year, and I like it.
I honestly thought we might have a trade for some upfront size. Maybe it is still coming, maybe I am totally wrong. Would not mind the idea tho.
Bradley with 2 goals already in the game against Calgary. Tigers appear to have him on the top line. Gotta say, kinda expecting a pretty good season from him. Likely can chip in goals and help make up the loss of Valks production. Good for him!
Cote is on the rebels
Good for Bradley! Going to be good on top 1 or 2 line.
Wondering about Broadhead. Liked that kid, I do not see him on Brooks Bandits roster. Thought he was playing there. Anyone know where he landed?
Broadhead is at home. Still suffering from last year concussion.
Oh man, that is really upsetting to see a guy out from such a bad concussion. All the best to him.
Why is it that Shinkaruk did not have to report to camp? He has not made any other team, seems odd that he did not attend camp. In the past players have always attended camp as it would seem they are tigers until told otherwise. I do not understand why the situation is different for him, anyone know? (not that I really want him back on the team)
The tigers are so secretive about leaking information! which is fine about players....but what I want to know is what Super Dave anjelic has planned to celebrate the final season in the Arena. ie 3rd throwback jerseys or tshirts for the fans. Thought they would hand out some type of memorabilia for season ticket holders that have been the backbone of the franchise for 45 years best fans in the league...or not!
Tommy Vannelli never returned back either!
Fan appreciation nights are hit and miss. Other whl teams offer special items and trip raffles for fans who pay early. Vancouver even adds 36 away games on computer to season ticket holders. Bring back the air gun!
To anon 5:52, Shinkaruk is signed by the Canucks so therefore he has no obligation to come to camp. Vanelli has also inked a contract and can be sent to the Ahl if the Blues choose to send him there.
I don't think the tigs have anybody qualified to run the air gun too much work to find an air sponsor who delivers probably.
how about a bobble head nite for our favorite player Blake Penner?
The Tigers aren't going to do much for the fans unless a sponsor or sponsors foot the bill for it. It's the way they do their business. Who do you think pays for the towels come playoff time, certainly not the team. They have quite a reputation around town for wanting every thing they get at bargain basement prices.
Thx ltf I will wait for my playoff towel and make a blanket out of them when I have enough!
Talking out loud here...
The Bottom line for marketing/give-aways entertainment is to put more butts in the seats and more profit.
The Last 10+ years the seats have all been sold out. They don't have any incentive whatsoever to increase their marketing because it has a negative expected value in return. They can't sell more tickets because they don't have more to sell.
Their marketing strategy of 14-15 years ago lowering prices to $199 with the combination of a very strong team was absolutely outstanding. They can't gain money off of more tickets, they could gain money off of more advertising revenue, which looked like their focus the last couple years.
You cant go to the owner and say we need an extra $25,000 and you will get nothing in return for it...doesn't fly. The new Arena will cause some changes to their pricing environment with an increase in supply of tickets.
1. The tickets that aren't used RIGHT NOW are in the fans hands...the Tigers are still making money currently off of unused tickets. The new arena will change that with extra seats. Some fans will drop their season tickets in favor of attending 10-20 games...and more of the extra tickets will be in the front office instead of the fans hands losing money in comparison...but they can make that an advantage for them.
One Strategy
An increase in walkup tickets..Turn the $18.50 into $20-$21. $18.50 is low compared to other markets. Season Tickets and Ticket packages now look like a massive deal...if they keep the same price.
5-10-15 flex game packages and put a strong emphasis on them. They want to win the fans back that drop their season tickets, and get new fans by offering them something the old Arena couldn't offer. The fans pay more per game than season tickets, but not as much money as season tickets so WIN-WIN. They make their money back maybe even plus some with more new fans buying ticket packages + they keep the demand for these packages high.
Then after a few years try to create a strategy that will turn these package tickets into season tickets to re-create the demand that was present in the old Arena...which may mean giveaways/extra's for season ticket holders.
--------------------------------------
Now I don't know what their data is and I'm not a marketing expert.....Their demand/supply curve hasn't really existed in 10 years, and their old data isn't reliable anymore. They probably have a decent idea of what will work based on the old Arena, but a substantial change in ticket supply is guaranteed to change things.
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I kinda think their key in this market is ticket packages. Fans want to go to games, just not all of them. Before they were willing to pay to hold onto their tickets, but now they don't have to. I think the last couple years they have been focusing on advertising revenue, and getting in game sponsors to give out fan stuff as as a thank you to fans..
Yea they might not have the give-aways and fan appreciation as other teams do, but then again their strategy for more profit doesn't need it...so I can totally understand it.
In saying all that having some extra things for Season Ticket Holders would be quite nice to have.
Talking out loud here...
The Bottom line for marketing/give-aways entertainment is to put more butts in the seats and more profit.
The Last 10+ years the seats have all been sold out. They don't have any incentive whatsoever to increase their marketing because it has a negative expected value in return. They can't sell more tickets because they don't have more to sell.
Their marketing strategy of 14-15 years ago lowering prices to $199 with the combination of a very strong team was absolutely outstanding. They can't gain money off of more tickets, they could gain money off of more advertising revenue, which looked like their focus the last couple years.
You cant go to the owner and say we need an extra $25,000 and you will get nothing in return for it...doesn't fly. The new Arena will cause some changes to their pricing environment with an increase in supply of tickets.
1. The tickets that aren't used RIGHT NOW are in the fans hands...the Tigers are still making money currently off of unused tickets. The new arena will change that with extra seats. Some fans will drop their season tickets in favor of attending 10-20 games...and more of the extra tickets will be in the front office instead of the fans hands losing money in comparison...but they can make that an advantage for them.
One Strategy
An increase in walkup tickets..Turn the $18.50 into $20-$21. $18.50 is low compared to other markets. Season Tickets and Ticket packages now look like a massive deal...if they keep the same price.
5-10-15 flex game packages and put a strong emphasis on them. They want to win the fans back that drop their season tickets, and get new fans by offering them something the old Arena couldn't offer. The fans pay more per game than season tickets, but not as much money as season tickets so WIN-WIN. They make their money back maybe even plus some with more new fans buying ticket packages + they keep the demand for these packages high.
Then after a few years try to create a strategy that will turn these package tickets into season tickets to re-create the demand that was present in the old Arena...which may mean giveaways/extra's for season ticket holders.
--------------------------------------
Now I don't know what their data is and I'm not a marketing expert.....Their demand/supply curve hasn't really existed in 10 years, and their old data isn't reliable anymore. They probably have a decent idea of what will work based on the old Arena, but a substantial change in ticket supply is guaranteed to change things.
-------
I kinda think their key in this market is ticket packages. Fans want to go to games, just not all of them. Before they were willing to pay to hold onto their tickets, but now they don't have to. I think the last couple years they have been focusing on advertising revenue, and getting in game sponsors to give out fan stuff as as a thank you to fans..
Yea they might not have the give-aways and fan appreciation as other teams do, but then again their strategy for more profit doesn't need it...so I can totally understand it.
In saying all that having some extra things for Season Ticket Holders would be quite nice to have.
So I guess the Pre-Season game in Calgary got some juices flowing.
Calgary forward Taylor Sanheim received a 5 minute major and game misconduct for running Marek Langhamer last saturday. He was also suspended one game by the whl.
Most other teams have to beg people to come to games and thank those who do to keep them coming. The only fan appreciation I need is getting post season games in every year. I love the tigers because I love tiger hockey. A bobble head or t-shirt that I will never wear will not make a difference to me. I could care less if they did it or not.
I hope people keep their season tickets. What Tigerturf wrote of is what I worry about. Suddenly people will just buy per game tickets. When that happens attendence will quickly drop off. Suddenly, because you dont have a ticket you will not feel the need to drive when it is snowing, tell yourself you will catch another game. If you have the season ticket you will go, because you paid for it already. Soon, those without season tickets who said they would still go to games but just buy at the door will not go to any. I sure hope this does not happen. I, for one, will keep my season tickets. I love the tigers. They are the best show in town. They have given me years of entertainment and I am a true fan. I really hope others do the same.
Rant over :)
Longtimefan.......if Shinkaruk and Vanelli are in the same situation then why was Shinkaruks name never listed for this season but Vanelli's was and still is? I understand your point totally but it just seems that Shinkaruk was written off completely. I do not understand how this happened as they are both in the exact same situation.
Its for the kids not for the oldtimers
We are all entitled to our own opinions. Last year in the old Arena deserves a celebration, when I celebrate I like to share and memorabilia to me to collect is fun and I my friend don't have Grey poupon in my fridge.
Lol, the Grey Poupon card is played over you wanting free stuff from a hockey game??
I do not care if there is free stuff but I would like to see another jersey added. I love the tiger jerseys but would like to see that orange one brought back with the "Tigers" written on the front.
Anon 7:44......you can not start the conversation with "we are all entitled to our own opinions" and then deliever a cheap "grey poupon" comment. Grow up!
I am happy to celebrate the last season in the barn and hopefully the fans can bring loud cheers everygame. That always makes the games so much more fun to me.
Anon 6:39 you and I are a lot alike. I, like you would go to the games no matter what ,but, there are a lot of people that don't feel the same way, especially those who only go to a handful of games each year. They are there to be entertained, by the game and what goes on in the building during the game. Those are the people you need to get a full building game in and game out.
Anon 6:43 the difference between the two is Shinkaruk would be an overager while Vanelli is only 19. My guess is Vancouver has probably made it known that Hunter won't be back in junior while St.Louis hasn't made a decision on Vanellis future and probably won't for a while.
Anon at 7:44 you are right.
I think they should give out grey poupon at every game.
Come watch the Tigers and we will poupon you. That would catch headlines everywhere.
Thanks longtimefan, was just not sure why there seemed to be 2 different criteria for them. Sure hope Vanelli is back but if he is not, I like the look of the young crew.
Grey Poupon with the hot dogs. Only class in the last year at the barn, best way to celebrate! (with the taco in a bag on the side)
Broadhead officially retires from the WHL due to his concussion issues.
Any inside story on no preseason for Labelle?
Judging by the score in the 3rd, it appears that Schneider is not ready to take the reins as starter. Here is hoping that Langhammer is returned to the Tigers!
Really young defence in the Leth game. Along with a young goalie. Turned into a bit of a goal mess. Got lots of pucks on net but the forwards were not able to bury it past the once Tiger tender Robidox. Only pre-season, but shows what kind of scores we might see until the vets get back from NHL camps. Might have to shorten the lines up a bit to start the season with some wins.
Why has the new goalie not played? Not dressed? And not practicing? Have seen a few practices, he is not there. Is he sitting to be traded or is he injured? This could be a problem as Langhammer leaves soon
I have heard that Rathjen has gone home.
I think Rathjen is sick.Schneider played good last year with the A defense he will come around!
Becker was brutal last night. I think he has to earn a spot like everyone else and based on last nights performance he isn't worth a 20yr old spot. Lethbridge started taking liberties on Sanford throughout the game and he was left to defend himself. We have to protect him and Cox cause they are going to be our main source of offensive production. Shut them down and get them off their game and disrupt their speed and we are in trouble. Schneider needs to be better prepared, Robidioux played well for them coming in halfway though the game. Shaw is a gamer, competes every shift, definitely proved he deserves to stay. Already ahead of guys like Butcher on the depth chart IMO. Only pre-season, but I think some of the older guys need to step up and play like they are fighting for their jobs, nothing should be given, everything earned.
I too have been to the arena and Rathjen is not on the ice for practices. A bit of a worry, do not really want to be shopping for goalies agian. And with Schneider being lit up in Lethbridge, I do not think we can really start the season with just him. Wonder what is going on there.
No, know for certain Rathjen is still in the Hat. Just not on the ice. Not sure the reason. Tight lipped around the arena about it.
THey need more poupon their shots to score goals.
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