Blog Comments
The comments exploded on here after Fischer announced he was leaving the team. I took a few days to write this review because I was quite angry and writing comments in anger are usually poorly thought out. This is a long post, but hopefully, you find it interesting.
1. Season Start & The Central Division
2. Junior Hockey Cycle and how the Tigers play into it.
3. Clouston & Desjardins talk
4. Players who have left the Organization
5. The Future of the Tigers
Summary
I'm giving Clouston a B grade Read on to find out why...
Unfortunate Season Start A Blessing in Disguise
I was disappointed in how this season has started with Shaw getting hurt and Fischer requesting a trade. While one was unfortunate, the other might have been prevented.
It has forced the Tigers to play all their players and the young guys are shining through! Darren Kruger Kids such as Ryan Chyzowksi, Dawson Heathcote, Josh Williams, Henry Rybinksi all look like they will be highlight impact players once they reach 18/19. The new Acquisition Hayden Ostir looks like the type of player the Tigers will create massive value from since he has 1-2 more years after this season. The Tigers acquired more points than they gave up, so the Fischer deal despite unfortunate circumstances is a win.
Central Division
This season in the central division no-one stands out. 1st in the central and a banner is up for grabs. I felt the Tigers had a "favorite" shot at that pre-season, but we will wait and see how the loss of Fischer and Shaw impact that. Tigers may still be favorites, just.... in an underdog position compared to the Eastern Division which is exceptionally strong.
The East is so strong that there is a weird weird possibility..... Finishing first in the division might mean playing a team in the East who finished with more points in the regular season. I think in the long-term is it unlikely, but that would be interesting...
The Canes have built up their defensive game as a counter to the Tigers offensive game. Red Deer should also grow stronger as the season progresses.
You could make an argument that this isn't the Tigers year they don't have the team. They have a bunch of younger players, build around them. That question in itself is what most teams dream of. A shot at 1st in the central and potential to be very good in a couple years.
The Junior Hockey Cycle
I think most of you are well aware of the cycle, but for those that don't...
A WHL team drafts players after their 14yr old hockey season. Which means that most players don't make the team for another 2 or 3 years. When they are 18-19 a few years later they turn into impact players. See the chart below for a look at how many points the average WHL Forward earns in their career.
2016-2017
Average Points Per Age Group (Forwards) (Min 30 games played)
16 Yr Olds = 0.226 Pts/Game = 16.2 Pts
17 Yr Olds = 0.421 Pts/Game = 30.3 Pts
18 Yr Olds = 0.610 Pts/Game = 44 Pts
19 Yr Olds = 0.763 Pts/Game = 54.9 Pts
20 Yr Olds = 0.882 Pts/Game = 63.5 Pts
Note: This is the Competitive Average as having a 30 game minimum takes away most players who were cut/released. Last season saw a higher number of points generated. The Total points is based on 72 games played.
The table above shows you, how much an "average" forward will improve points-wise An averagely skilled 16yr old improves 400% by the time he is an OA.
Improvement Curve & The Cycle
The Junior hockey cycle takes 4 years to rebuild( In some cases 5 with traded draft picks).
Championship teams usually have a very strong core of 18 and 19's. In essence 2 very strong drafts/recruitment's back to back. When that core matures at 18/19 they are supplemented with Overagers, Import Draft selections and ideally a few young "up and comers" that are the depth 4th liners.
A year or two after the strong season, most of the stronger players graduate and the team is now full of younger players. As a result, they end up with poor seasons and strong drafts...and the cycle resets.
Now the cycle has changed a little in some organizations. The Tigers are a prime example. Usually, in down or mediocre years, teams strive for balanced age groups so that there isn't a high degree of turn-over every year. The Tigers tend to do this and hope that every couple years they pull out a strong draft and have stronger teams.
Examples of Successful Cycles In the WHL
I could go over many examples. Take the Edmonton Oil Kings of 2011-2012 to 2013-2014. 3 straight WHL Finals appearances can be attributed to 3 very strong drafts in their inauguration years of 08 to 2010. They missed the playoffs in 2 of 3 of those years. Bob Green was at the helm (He was a big part of the Tigers organization and scouting networks when Willie Desjardins was here)
The cycle doesn't guarantee top teams, as you are competing with other teams in the same stages of their own cycles. A team that cycles the right way will have a competitive advantage over teams that have spent a couple bantam draft picks in previous years balancing out their age groups, or adding assets to win an extra playoff round. Great scouting gives you strong teams and the building blocks to develop a winner.
Examples of "The Down Cycle"
It has forced the Tigers to play all their players and the young guys are shining through! Darren Kruger Kids such as Ryan Chyzowksi, Dawson Heathcote, Josh Williams, Henry Rybinksi all look like they will be highlight impact players once they reach 18/19. The new Acquisition Hayden Ostir looks like the type of player the Tigers will create massive value from since he has 1-2 more years after this season. The Tigers acquired more points than they gave up, so the Fischer deal despite unfortunate circumstances is a win.
Central Division
This season in the central division no-one stands out. 1st in the central and a banner is up for grabs. I felt the Tigers had a "favorite" shot at that pre-season, but we will wait and see how the loss of Fischer and Shaw impact that. Tigers may still be favorites, just.... in an underdog position compared to the Eastern Division which is exceptionally strong.
The East is so strong that there is a weird weird possibility..... Finishing first in the division might mean playing a team in the East who finished with more points in the regular season. I think in the long-term is it unlikely, but that would be interesting...
The Canes have built up their defensive game as a counter to the Tigers offensive game. Red Deer should also grow stronger as the season progresses.
You could make an argument that this isn't the Tigers year they don't have the team. They have a bunch of younger players, build around them. That question in itself is what most teams dream of. A shot at 1st in the central and potential to be very good in a couple years.
The Junior Hockey Cycle
I think most of you are well aware of the cycle, but for those that don't...
A WHL team drafts players after their 14yr old hockey season. Which means that most players don't make the team for another 2 or 3 years. When they are 18-19 a few years later they turn into impact players. See the chart below for a look at how many points the average WHL Forward earns in their career.
2016-2017
Average Points Per Age Group (Forwards) (Min 30 games played)
16 Yr Olds = 0.226 Pts/Game = 16.2 Pts
17 Yr Olds = 0.421 Pts/Game = 30.3 Pts
18 Yr Olds = 0.610 Pts/Game = 44 Pts
19 Yr Olds = 0.763 Pts/Game = 54.9 Pts
20 Yr Olds = 0.882 Pts/Game = 63.5 Pts
Note: This is the Competitive Average as having a 30 game minimum takes away most players who were cut/released. Last season saw a higher number of points generated. The Total points is based on 72 games played.
The table above shows you, how much an "average" forward will improve points-wise An averagely skilled 16yr old improves 400% by the time he is an OA.
Improvement Curve & The Cycle
The Junior hockey cycle takes 4 years to rebuild( In some cases 5 with traded draft picks).
Championship teams usually have a very strong core of 18 and 19's. In essence 2 very strong drafts/recruitment's back to back. When that core matures at 18/19 they are supplemented with Overagers, Import Draft selections and ideally a few young "up and comers" that are the depth 4th liners.
A year or two after the strong season, most of the stronger players graduate and the team is now full of younger players. As a result, they end up with poor seasons and strong drafts...and the cycle resets.
Now the cycle has changed a little in some organizations. The Tigers are a prime example. Usually, in down or mediocre years, teams strive for balanced age groups so that there isn't a high degree of turn-over every year. The Tigers tend to do this and hope that every couple years they pull out a strong draft and have stronger teams.
Examples of Successful Cycles In the WHL
I could go over many examples. Take the Edmonton Oil Kings of 2011-2012 to 2013-2014. 3 straight WHL Finals appearances can be attributed to 3 very strong drafts in their inauguration years of 08 to 2010. They missed the playoffs in 2 of 3 of those years. Bob Green was at the helm (He was a big part of the Tigers organization and scouting networks when Willie Desjardins was here)
The cycle doesn't guarantee top teams, as you are competing with other teams in the same stages of their own cycles. A team that cycles the right way will have a competitive advantage over teams that have spent a couple bantam draft picks in previous years balancing out their age groups, or adding assets to win an extra playoff round. Great scouting gives you strong teams and the building blocks to develop a winner.
Examples of "The Down Cycle"
Take the current Saskatoon blades as a prime example. They had some sustained success for a lot of years and eventually, they drained the cupboards for the Memorial Cup run in 2013. Regina is currently going through that process of draining the cupboards for this season.
Now Saskatoon has had a few years of poor seasons since. In reality, they are just taking the long road to recovery. Drafting at 14, then waiting until those players mature takes some time. IMO they screwed up their recovery by trying a statistical value trading approach, and it may take an extra couple seasons before a contender is built, but I won't get into it any further here.
Rick Carrier Willie Desjardins, & The Revamp of the Tigers Organization
There was a really good article that appeared on the Tigers website 5 years ago. They interviewed Rick Carrier who with Willie Desjardins were the founders of the Revamp of the Tigers organization. ( Could add Bob Green in their as well)
In the article Carrier stated he wanted to "blow the team up" but the Masers were some of the folks who reminded him to stay the course. http://tigershockey.com/rick-carriere-joins-edmonton-oilers/
The bad thing about a down cycle. The bad press, the fans are not happy. Winning solves everything, and many shortcuts are taken to achieve that, which wrecks teams championship chances in the long run.
In the Tigers case, they had been in a down cycle for 6 years, so they were not recovering appropriately until Rick Carrier changed things and Willie Desjardins instituted his successful long term vision. Today Sean Clouston has taken over and continued that role.
The "Tigers Cycle"
The Tigers are well aware of the Cycle. When Willie Desjardins was here he had an advantageous situation taking over a team with multiple higher round picks. As such he was able to very quickly turn those cupboards full of China and create a wonderful dining room setup.. hah! His vision and work ethic molded a team that was having difficulties generating a winning culture.
Sean Clouston was a big part of that and took over the reigns as head coach in 2010, and soon after the GM role.
With Willie and Clouston they understand that buying an asset is expensive. They understand that shortcuts hurt a team in the long-run. For an Impact player generally, you need to give up 3 pieces...A good young player, a high draft pick, and a 2nd tier prospect at a minimum.
A lot of the teams in this league buy and sell. There are big pros and cons. If done right this helps their up years by receiving better players, helps their down years being less skilled and a higher draft pick position When unlucky or done wrong, it is disastrous.
The Tigers generally don't take those risks. They have added strong pieces, but only after players have demanded trades, and the long-term cost is minimal. They like their cycle to be an above average line with occasional "up blips".
Adding at the Deadline
2006-2007
One of Willie's best Moves was acquiring Michael Sauer from the Portland Winterhawks. The Tigers were close to championship caliber, but Michael Sauer paired with Russell gave the Tigers a premier 1st line pairing....both made the NHL. The Tigers gave up Patrick Wiercoich and Lee Morrow. Wiercoich went the NCAA route and Morrow only played in 20 games with Portland. A #1/2 Dman for nothing.
To Add or Not To Add
There are 22 teams in the league so it is natural to have multiple teams competing at the same point in their "up cycle" seasons. The Tigers in the last 15 years have not sought out the for 3 type deals with one exception....
Tigers 2015 Season
The Tigers did add in 2015, but only because Hobbs demanded a trade. The Tigers acquired Hunt, Burroughs for Hobbs, a 2nd, and 3rd round picks. The Tigers later shipped Hunt for a 2nd and 3rd round pick. The Tigers basically lost 2.5 years of Hobbs for a half season of Hunt+Burroughs, which is significantly much smaller than a 1 for 3 or 2 for 6 deal. We can also add that Hobbs was a throw in to a previous deal with P.A
The Tigers weakness was an inconsistent and small offence and while they did acquire some help Butcher's production went down and their offence stayed the same. That downside was that the Tigers got beat by the Hitman in 5 games in Round 2 against a team they owned during the regular season. The Tigers also had insane turnover on the back-end and missed the playoffs the following year. It was a relatively smaller risk that failed, but because of that run they ended up with the #6 pick and Josh Williams
WHL Buyers That Failed
There are many cases of buying that end up failing.
2017 - Prince George
2016 - Red Deer Rebels
2015 - Medicine Hat Tigers
2014- Victoria Royals
2013 - Saskatoon Blades, Kootenay Ice
2010 - Brandon Wheat Kings
Buyers That Worked (Won the WHL)
2015 - Kelowna Rockets
2012 - Edmonton Oil Kings
2011 - Kootenay Ice
Neutral
2017- Seattle
2016 - Brandon
2014- Oil Kings
2013 - Portland
2010 - Calgary
* Made small deals/tinkered in their winning years
Past Memorial Cup Champions
2007 Vancouver Giants
2004 Kelowna Rockets
2007 - Vancouver bought Kendal McArdle
2004 - I don't remember, but I don't think the Rockets bought in 2004, I could be wrong.
Note: I define buyer as a team that made a significant deal in the winning year that impacted their future. Giving up something more than a 2nd round pick.
Competitive Advantage
This is just in the last 8 years, but the list of buyers that have failed is long. The list of buyers that worked is short. In short, buying can work, but it is very risky....
Clouston Vs Desjardins
Everybody has a different way of doing things.
Now Saskatoon has had a few years of poor seasons since. In reality, they are just taking the long road to recovery. Drafting at 14, then waiting until those players mature takes some time. IMO they screwed up their recovery by trying a statistical value trading approach, and it may take an extra couple seasons before a contender is built, but I won't get into it any further here.
Rick Carrier Willie Desjardins, & The Revamp of the Tigers Organization
There was a really good article that appeared on the Tigers website 5 years ago. They interviewed Rick Carrier who with Willie Desjardins were the founders of the Revamp of the Tigers organization. ( Could add Bob Green in their as well)
In the article Carrier stated he wanted to "blow the team up" but the Masers were some of the folks who reminded him to stay the course. http://tigershockey.com/rick-carriere-joins-edmonton-oilers/
The bad thing about a down cycle. The bad press, the fans are not happy. Winning solves everything, and many shortcuts are taken to achieve that, which wrecks teams championship chances in the long run.
In the Tigers case, they had been in a down cycle for 6 years, so they were not recovering appropriately until Rick Carrier changed things and Willie Desjardins instituted his successful long term vision. Today Sean Clouston has taken over and continued that role.
The "Tigers Cycle"
The Tigers are well aware of the Cycle. When Willie Desjardins was here he had an advantageous situation taking over a team with multiple higher round picks. As such he was able to very quickly turn those cupboards full of China and create a wonderful dining room setup.. hah! His vision and work ethic molded a team that was having difficulties generating a winning culture.
Sean Clouston was a big part of that and took over the reigns as head coach in 2010, and soon after the GM role.
With Willie and Clouston they understand that buying an asset is expensive. They understand that shortcuts hurt a team in the long-run. For an Impact player generally, you need to give up 3 pieces...A good young player, a high draft pick, and a 2nd tier prospect at a minimum.
A lot of the teams in this league buy and sell. There are big pros and cons. If done right this helps their up years by receiving better players, helps their down years being less skilled and a higher draft pick position When unlucky or done wrong, it is disastrous.
The Tigers generally don't take those risks. They have added strong pieces, but only after players have demanded trades, and the long-term cost is minimal. They like their cycle to be an above average line with occasional "up blips".
Adding at the Deadline
2006-2007
One of Willie's best Moves was acquiring Michael Sauer from the Portland Winterhawks. The Tigers were close to championship caliber, but Michael Sauer paired with Russell gave the Tigers a premier 1st line pairing....both made the NHL. The Tigers gave up Patrick Wiercoich and Lee Morrow. Wiercoich went the NCAA route and Morrow only played in 20 games with Portland. A #1/2 Dman for nothing.
To Add or Not To Add
There are 22 teams in the league so it is natural to have multiple teams competing at the same point in their "up cycle" seasons. The Tigers in the last 15 years have not sought out the for 3 type deals with one exception....
Tigers 2015 Season
The Tigers did add in 2015, but only because Hobbs demanded a trade. The Tigers acquired Hunt, Burroughs for Hobbs, a 2nd, and 3rd round picks. The Tigers later shipped Hunt for a 2nd and 3rd round pick. The Tigers basically lost 2.5 years of Hobbs for a half season of Hunt+Burroughs, which is significantly much smaller than a 1 for 3 or 2 for 6 deal. We can also add that Hobbs was a throw in to a previous deal with P.A
The Tigers weakness was an inconsistent and small offence and while they did acquire some help Butcher's production went down and their offence stayed the same. That downside was that the Tigers got beat by the Hitman in 5 games in Round 2 against a team they owned during the regular season. The Tigers also had insane turnover on the back-end and missed the playoffs the following year. It was a relatively smaller risk that failed, but because of that run they ended up with the #6 pick and Josh Williams
WHL Buyers That Failed
There are many cases of buying that end up failing.
2017 - Prince George
2016 - Red Deer Rebels
2015 - Medicine Hat Tigers
2014- Victoria Royals
2013 - Saskatoon Blades, Kootenay Ice
2010 - Brandon Wheat Kings
Buyers That Worked (Won the WHL)
2015 - Kelowna Rockets
2012 - Edmonton Oil Kings
2011 - Kootenay Ice
Neutral
2017- Seattle
2016 - Brandon
2014- Oil Kings
2013 - Portland
2010 - Calgary
* Made small deals/tinkered in their winning years
Past Memorial Cup Champions
2007 Vancouver Giants
2004 Kelowna Rockets
2007 - Vancouver bought Kendal McArdle
2004 - I don't remember, but I don't think the Rockets bought in 2004, I could be wrong.
Note: I define buyer as a team that made a significant deal in the winning year that impacted their future. Giving up something more than a 2nd round pick.
Competitive Advantage
This is just in the last 8 years, but the list of buyers that have failed is long. The list of buyers that worked is short. In short, buying can work, but it is very risky....
Clouston Vs Desjardins
Everybody has a different way of doing things.
One Difference Between Clouston and Desjardins
Willie gave a depth player a chance to perform and if they weren't capable he gave them a renewed chance on another team and recovered a draft pick. Example players like Brad Forrest, Gary Haden, Tyler Prezuiso might have been moved, for 4th and 5th round picks.
Sean Clouston
Clouston became the Head Coach after Willie Desjardins landed a pro job in 2010. This is Clouston's 8th season as head coach. (Willie D left after his 8th season)
Clouston came in and modified things. Clouston holds onto his depth players. They are the healthy scratches and receive spot duty and lesser ice-time on the 4th lines. The top lines and older players are played much more heavily. Same thing with goaltenders and that could be a big reason why the Tigers have been poor at developing goaltenders lately.
Clouston also preaches his systems pretty heavily, and he keeps commenting on the radio that they demand their players to play a certain way. Players with a high degree of defensive smarts, but not necessarily high mobility and players who play with an edge and high physicality are players that the Tigers don't target.
The Tigers that play a strong north/south game from blueline to blue-line, and the guys who are east/west or physical players sometimes feel it difficult to adapt.
Nonetheless, Clouston recognizes that older players generate more offence.
Why any Owner Would Love The Current System
This is not intent of being anything bad,
Willie gave a depth player a chance to perform and if they weren't capable he gave them a renewed chance on another team and recovered a draft pick. Example players like Brad Forrest, Gary Haden, Tyler Prezuiso might have been moved, for 4th and 5th round picks.
Sean Clouston
Clouston became the Head Coach after Willie Desjardins landed a pro job in 2010. This is Clouston's 8th season as head coach. (Willie D left after his 8th season)
Clouston came in and modified things. Clouston holds onto his depth players. They are the healthy scratches and receive spot duty and lesser ice-time on the 4th lines. The top lines and older players are played much more heavily. Same thing with goaltenders and that could be a big reason why the Tigers have been poor at developing goaltenders lately.
Clouston also preaches his systems pretty heavily, and he keeps commenting on the radio that they demand their players to play a certain way. Players with a high degree of defensive smarts, but not necessarily high mobility and players who play with an edge and high physicality are players that the Tigers don't target.
The Tigers that play a strong north/south game from blueline to blue-line, and the guys who are east/west or physical players sometimes feel it difficult to adapt.
Nonetheless, Clouston recognizes that older players generate more offence.
Why any Owner Would Love The Current System
This is not intent of being anything bad,
The junior hockey cycle....When you have a good team, you have good attendance which means more money. When you have poor teams you get poor attendance which means less money. Business owners hate losing money, they like stable investments. Hockey is cyclical and volatile
Clouston has been a head coach for 7 years,(this is his 8th season). Under Willie & Clouston the Tigers have failed to make the 2nd round of the playoffs only once. That is actually a pretty phenomenal achievement to have a system in place that can provide continual results. The owners also love the stable revenue.
The Masers have owned the team a long time, the Tigers have had good years, they have had bad years.They have lost money, they have made good money. If your a business guy and someone gives you consistent results, consistent attendance, consistent revenue...there is little chance of them altering that pattern as it doesn't make sense to do so. The only danger is not failing to adapt to changing market conditions and the game-changing, which even Bob Ridley mentioned the game seems to change every 5 years.
What the NHL Wants
What the NHL Wants
They want people who know how to win. All one needs to do is look at the coaches who won in the WHL Finals, and realize that every coach who won in the last 5 years( I haven't looked beyond that) left the following year for a pro job.
(Seattle's' Steve Konowalchuk, Brandon's' Kelly McCrimmon, Kelowna Dan Lambert, Edmonton Ryan Huska) There are more, you get the point.
Clouston & Desjardins Coaching Record
(Seattle's' Steve Konowalchuk, Brandon's' Kelly McCrimmon, Kelowna Dan Lambert, Edmonton Ryan Huska) There are more, you get the point.
Clouston & Desjardins Coaching Record
The True .500
.500 Winning Percentage or 72 points is a benchmark that a lot of people use for an average team. However, with the introduction of a point for an overtime loss inflation has occurred. If we take the total amount of points and games into account the true average fluctuates very close to .550 depending on the Amount of OT games in a season.
Clouston's Regular Season Record
294-179-17-14 = .614 Winning percentage.
Plus .064
Clouston's Playoffs
His record is 37 wins, 33 losses = .529.
.029 above the average.
His playoff success is above the average, but half as successful as his regular season play
Compared to Willie Desjardins
Note: Willie coached 3 seasons with no extra OT point.
Regular Season
Wins-L-T-OTL-SOL
333-182-15-28-18 = .631 winning percentage
.100 points above the average
(.531 is the combined estimated .500 with 3 seasons in which there were no points for an OT loss
Playoffs
65-43 = .602 record
.102 points above average.
Willie Desjardins
Just going through that data, it makes you appreciate what we had in Medicine Hat when Desjardins was here. I listened to his radio interview last weekend with Bob Ridley and he mentioned he had some offers to coach in the WHL, but it would be difficult to go anywhere else than the Tigers.
Sean Clouston
These stats show that Clouston has been successful during the regular season and mildly successful in the playoffs. We also see he rides his top line older talent over developing players. So is his coaching creating extra success? or is he just knowledgeable of how to take advantage of the WHL system?
At this point, nothing leads me to believe there is anything special in his coaching, but his long-term vision has led to moderate success in his GM role.
Clouston's Improvements
I have seen improvements over the years. 3-4 years ago the Tigers started activating their 2nd defenceman into the rush. (He took a while to implement that).
The last few years we have seen players behind on the depth charts traded instead of 4th line scratches that may have otherwise ended up demanding trades (McGovern, Fantillo)
Their penalty kills used to be quite passive. Now they are passively aggressive (which is better) Passive kill only works best when you are severely out-skilled. Although Bobby Fox was taken credit for this.
David Quenneville - A little inconsistent at times in the early going, but somebody taught him to be more aware of his defensive surroundings. I would guess that could have come from the Islanders or Fox.
The last 2 seasons the Tigers are playing 3 line combos with spot duty to the 4th line. In years previous there was a heavy emphasis on the top 2 lines.
Clouston's Grade & Overall Ranking
I'm giving him a flat B. He was part of the system for developing consistent winning years and that is awesome. It would be wrong to give him anything less than a B for that.
I cannot give him a higher grade due to players continually leaving the organization and mild success in the playoffs. If we take out the players leaving the organization I would have given him a B+.
It is almost a given in Junior hockey that players asked to be moved. ( I'm sure Willie had players asking for deals as well) The bad thing is that Clouston has overlooked this for a while, and now he has a reputation of someone who has an attitude behind closed doors. Us fans are starting to be highly concerned about what happens in the dressings rooms and every player that now leaves will cause more scrutinization.
He hasn't been able to make a WHL Finals appearance, and his regular season success hasn't yet equaled playoff success. IMO he is weak on teaching defensive skill; however, he excels at teaching North/South mobility, as well as a very solid vision of how to achieve above average teams.
Players leaving & Organizational Issues
The List of players Who have publicly Sat out and Demanded Trades
Jayden Hart - December 2013
Connor Hobbs - November 2014
Spencer Jensen - January 2014
Cole Sanford January 2016
Zach Fischer October 2017
I think it takes a lot for a player to just abandon the team. The first couple players us fans were quite perturbed about players wanting to leave, as we were still used to the Willie Desjardins era.
After the last couple has left, we automatically assume it was the coach.... Junior hockey you need coaches that can connect with the players. It is disturbing that players would rather sit out than chase their dream with the Tigers.
We don't know what goes on in the dressing room. We want medicine hat to hold a high reputation. All we know is that issues are happening.
Winning has a tendency to solve everything, and the Tigers have a high degree of talent coming in. Clouston has a big opportunity for his career if he aspires for a pro job.
Clouston's' Grade
If I would compare Clouston to a hockey player in the pro ranks. I would give him a 1-year AHL deal to see if he is worthy. I'm not ready to offer him a long-term thing because I think he is just a little above average.
He understands how the system works, and his systems work well in the regular season. I'm not ready to call for his firing, I think for the success he has brought here he deserves a couple years to bring this team together but the grip on my leash is a little tighter.
The Future
Lets' leave this on a good note. The Cycle.The roster in 2 years.
In 2 Years
While it is still early I think in 2 years the forward group will be exceptional and goal scoring won't be an issue.
Defensive is still volatile, as there are no new players playing significant roles as of yet. However, they do have a ton of depth and youth. Joel Craven, Trevor Longo, Cole Clayton, Daniel Baker, and Eric Van Impe. The law of odds say at least a couple if not most of them should turn out well, they just need some experience.
Goal-tending is tougher to judge, but they have 2 younger kids in Kaeden Lane, and 1st round pick Garin Brojklund looking to crack the backup job behind Jordan Hollett next season. These 2 will still be relatively young and the Tigers have historically had a tough time developing goalies. I really hope next year that whoever wins the backup role will be given ample time to develop.
Overall the forward group will be ok, defensively we will wait and see how they progress.
Forwards
Rybisnki(18)Chyzowski(19) Heathcote(19)
Ositr(20) Hamblin(20) Williams(18)
Anderson(19) Steele(19) Price(18)
Hopwo(18) McCarry(18) xxx
Defence
Clayton(19) Craven(19)
Longo(19) Baker(18)
Fedyck(18)
Goaltending
Hollet(20)
Lane(18)
Bjorklund(17)
Add 2 imports, and anything else they find in the next 2 years.
Feel free to give me feedback if this was a difficult read or too boring.
.500 Winning Percentage or 72 points is a benchmark that a lot of people use for an average team. However, with the introduction of a point for an overtime loss inflation has occurred. If we take the total amount of points and games into account the true average fluctuates very close to .550 depending on the Amount of OT games in a season.
Clouston's Regular Season Record
294-179-17-14 = .614 Winning percentage.
Plus .064
Clouston's Playoffs
His record is 37 wins, 33 losses = .529.
.029 above the average.
His playoff success is above the average, but half as successful as his regular season play
Compared to Willie Desjardins
Note: Willie coached 3 seasons with no extra OT point.
Regular Season
Wins-L-T-OTL-SOL
333-182-15-28-18 = .631 winning percentage
.100 points above the average
(.531 is the combined estimated .500 with 3 seasons in which there were no points for an OT loss
Playoffs
65-43 = .602 record
.102 points above average.
Willie Desjardins
Just going through that data, it makes you appreciate what we had in Medicine Hat when Desjardins was here. I listened to his radio interview last weekend with Bob Ridley and he mentioned he had some offers to coach in the WHL, but it would be difficult to go anywhere else than the Tigers.
Sean Clouston
These stats show that Clouston has been successful during the regular season and mildly successful in the playoffs. We also see he rides his top line older talent over developing players. So is his coaching creating extra success? or is he just knowledgeable of how to take advantage of the WHL system?
At this point, nothing leads me to believe there is anything special in his coaching, but his long-term vision has led to moderate success in his GM role.
Clouston's Improvements
I have seen improvements over the years. 3-4 years ago the Tigers started activating their 2nd defenceman into the rush. (He took a while to implement that).
The last few years we have seen players behind on the depth charts traded instead of 4th line scratches that may have otherwise ended up demanding trades (McGovern, Fantillo)
Their penalty kills used to be quite passive. Now they are passively aggressive (which is better) Passive kill only works best when you are severely out-skilled. Although Bobby Fox was taken credit for this.
David Quenneville - A little inconsistent at times in the early going, but somebody taught him to be more aware of his defensive surroundings. I would guess that could have come from the Islanders or Fox.
The last 2 seasons the Tigers are playing 3 line combos with spot duty to the 4th line. In years previous there was a heavy emphasis on the top 2 lines.
Clouston's Grade & Overall Ranking
I'm giving him a flat B. He was part of the system for developing consistent winning years and that is awesome. It would be wrong to give him anything less than a B for that.
I cannot give him a higher grade due to players continually leaving the organization and mild success in the playoffs. If we take out the players leaving the organization I would have given him a B+.
It is almost a given in Junior hockey that players asked to be moved. ( I'm sure Willie had players asking for deals as well) The bad thing is that Clouston has overlooked this for a while, and now he has a reputation of someone who has an attitude behind closed doors. Us fans are starting to be highly concerned about what happens in the dressings rooms and every player that now leaves will cause more scrutinization.
He hasn't been able to make a WHL Finals appearance, and his regular season success hasn't yet equaled playoff success. IMO he is weak on teaching defensive skill; however, he excels at teaching North/South mobility, as well as a very solid vision of how to achieve above average teams.
Players leaving & Organizational Issues
The List of players Who have publicly Sat out and Demanded Trades
Jayden Hart - December 2013
Connor Hobbs - November 2014
Spencer Jensen - January 2014
Cole Sanford January 2016
Zach Fischer October 2017
I think it takes a lot for a player to just abandon the team. The first couple players us fans were quite perturbed about players wanting to leave, as we were still used to the Willie Desjardins era.
After the last couple has left, we automatically assume it was the coach.... Junior hockey you need coaches that can connect with the players. It is disturbing that players would rather sit out than chase their dream with the Tigers.
We don't know what goes on in the dressing room. We want medicine hat to hold a high reputation. All we know is that issues are happening.
Winning has a tendency to solve everything, and the Tigers have a high degree of talent coming in. Clouston has a big opportunity for his career if he aspires for a pro job.
Clouston's' Grade
If I would compare Clouston to a hockey player in the pro ranks. I would give him a 1-year AHL deal to see if he is worthy. I'm not ready to offer him a long-term thing because I think he is just a little above average.
He understands how the system works, and his systems work well in the regular season. I'm not ready to call for his firing, I think for the success he has brought here he deserves a couple years to bring this team together but the grip on my leash is a little tighter.
The Future
Lets' leave this on a good note. The Cycle.The roster in 2 years.
In 2 Years
While it is still early I think in 2 years the forward group will be exceptional and goal scoring won't be an issue.
Defensive is still volatile, as there are no new players playing significant roles as of yet. However, they do have a ton of depth and youth. Joel Craven, Trevor Longo, Cole Clayton, Daniel Baker, and Eric Van Impe. The law of odds say at least a couple if not most of them should turn out well, they just need some experience.
Goal-tending is tougher to judge, but they have 2 younger kids in Kaeden Lane, and 1st round pick Garin Brojklund looking to crack the backup job behind Jordan Hollett next season. These 2 will still be relatively young and the Tigers have historically had a tough time developing goalies. I really hope next year that whoever wins the backup role will be given ample time to develop.
Overall the forward group will be ok, defensively we will wait and see how they progress.
Forwards
Rybisnki(18)Chyzowski(19) Heathcote(19)
Ositr(20) Hamblin(20) Williams(18)
Anderson(19) Steele(19) Price(18)
Hopwo(18) McCarry(18) xxx
Defence
Clayton(19) Craven(19)
Longo(19) Baker(18)
Fedyck(18)
Goaltending
Hollet(20)
Lane(18)
Bjorklund(17)
Add 2 imports, and anything else they find in the next 2 years.
Feel free to give me feedback if this was a difficult read or too boring.
81 comments:
Love the research and information. Very interesting! Must have taken hours! You REALLY need to learn the difference between, "there" , "they're" , and, "their." It would improve the readability of your posts. I am sure that you could easily improve this with only modest brain strain.
When I watch the Tiger's warm up, THERE are times when I can tell that THEY'RE going to win. Other times, I know that THEIR opponents are simply too strong. With respect to opponents, if THEIR bus arrives early, I have noticed that THERE is a better chance for a Tiger victory. If THERE are two refs, and THEY'RE both incompetent, then THEIR chances of victory are impossible to predict. Well, THERE you have it. If THEY'RE going to make the playoffs this year, then THERE should be somebody from the Tiger's organisation that travels to the opponents location to put a little bit of rocket fuel in THEIR team's bus tank.
"...so that THERE is not a high degree of turn-over"
"...THERE was a really good article..."
"...In previous years, THERE was a heavy emphasis..."
"...THERE are more you get the point."
Thanks for the optimistic post (needed it after the 9-1 blasting).
Theoren
Thanks!
Good point. I should spend more time doing an edit on grammar before hitting the finish button.
Great read! A scout told me Bjorklund is one of the better goalie prospects hes seen in the last 5 yrs or so who could be a potential starter in the pros, but thats also scary when Clouston hasn't done anything to produce a goalie prospect. Agreed also there's some high end talent in the pipeline coming through soon.
One dude i don't think gets enough praise is Haden. He usually makes a good play with the puck. Could be a bit faster but hopefully that will come. Hopefully Clouston will give him a chance to develop this year.
Great article
I agree that two years from now could be real good
However I didn't want to have to say this but jaegar white has played 10 games and hasn't done anything. We continue to have guys like Anderson, Steele, Heathcote and Rybinski in the stands. These guys will be the core of the team in 2 years so it's doing them no good right now.
The way a look at it 2 of them play one night and then the next 2 play the next game.
If you drop white you allow 3 to play every night and then you only have 1 sitting out and you can just continually rotate them around.
This isn't intended to be a cut on white but the fact is he is 19 and has no future wth this team and personally I think Heathcote and Rybinski are already better than him.
The amount of growth these young guys get from playing in say 55 games is much greater than only playing in 35.
Bjorklund - I watched him once in training camp. Reminded me of Tyler Bunz when he was 16. Hopefully, Bjorklund can be as good if not better than Bunz.
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Haden - If we look at the competitive average in the blog post. Haden was well below the average last season, but this season is slightly above it. His improvements have been noticeable and it has translated into points. Preziuso is starting to show more improvements as well. I hope he continues to push himself.
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I agree with the comments on white. If we take out the intangibles surrounding him.... He is a developing 19yr old and behind the curve. I'd rather see the ice on the developing younger kids.
What are your thoughts on Cole Clayton?
I really like his defensive instincts and smarts. I like that he knows where to be on the ice and who is dangerous. I like his size and mobility. I like his first pass ability. I like his active stick. I think he is a guy that understands the defensive side of the game.
I think Clayton will turn out to be more of a 2-way defenseman who can take care of his own end with a good first pass. As he gains experience he will get more points.
I feel that on loose pucks he is a bit hesitant, or perhaps looses his bearings a little. He needs to be a little more aggressive and just keep an eye on not being flat-footed in those scenarios and work on his reaction time. That should come with more experience.
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In terms of pro potential, I don't think he will get drafted as he is still raw. He is one of those players whereas he develops that experience base....... his effectiveness will increase
Defenceman peak later and Clayton is too smart not to become a key player by 19-20. I feel he is a very smart player so constant video sessions on his play should be very helpful to him.
This season is his "feet wet" season. 3rd line pairing with gally is perfect for him to develop with. His pro potential will be determined by how much he improves over his junior career. He has above average instincts and tools.
It is still very early when it comes to the draft. If he improves in the second half with his aggressiveness perhaps it changes things.
Great article based on facts which I personally like . Doesn’t address the issues of players wanting out . For all the guys who publicly wanted out there is equal or more players who also want out but kept quiet
Sad that a great city and hockey market like the Hat has such a bad reputation . This is hurting and will continue to hurt the team as players coaches and parents of kids talk and the reputation is bad for the Hat
I agree with the above poster. With so many guys leaving in such a short period, there is going to be negative consequences for the organization going forward.
The bigger question is why are these players asking out? As fans, we don't know but we hear rumours. The kids the Tigers draft and their families are not going to get the complete picture of what has happened either. This could have a profound impact on the team going foward. Players might not want to come because of what they have heard through the grapevine. Players families may decide, "I don't want my kid to play in that environment."
It's a bad situation and Clouston has to take responsibility for it.
Aside from that, I agree with most of what was written. However, I would be more critical of the playoff performance. There has been too many times during Clouston's tenure that the team has looked terrible in the playoffs.
Caleb Fantillo asked for a trade as well.
What happened with Nick Schneider late last year? Bullion suddenly was the goalie and Schneider never heard from again. Was that related to Clouston?
Schneider was really sick all yr or thats what I was told
From what I heard he was sick as well. But there was some verbal abuse behind closed doors. I believe it was around Christmas he quit the team and went home. I guess his parents and his agent talked him into coming back and eventually got him traded.
He was sick all right; sick of Clouston. Add another to the list.
Disgusting hearing of these kids being abused and bullied. They're also in power to say anything as it likely wrecks any hope of a career they might have in hockey.
Great article of facts , well done - what are your thoughts on the new forwards ,I have spent a bit of time looking at there previous year / teams and points , there is some interesting facts both Anderson and rybinski played bcmml ,Steele AAA and Heathcote jr B -
Time for the coach and step son to go..one just wants to play and just doesn't have it anymore. The other is just a clown
Schneider was not a starting goalie when he played for the hat.
Anon 8:22 you're wrong. Last season started with Schneider as the starter and Duncan McGovern as the back up. Josh Morrissey played 12 minutes and Michael bullion was added on January 1 of 2017.
Why does the Med Hat News not do a story on the rotating door of the tigers? I dont get it. They are a newspaper, they seem just just report happy things and not actually do new reporting. Its too bad as some pressure on the tigers owners would be nice.
They won't as the owners don't speak to the press now and if pressure is put on them the owners could just ban the news writers from speaking to players or team coaches
I have been thinking about that as well, the lack of reporting on players asking out. As a former journalist, I don't believe the Maser's are the issue. That wouldn't fly with the WHL head office.
News and sports reporting isn't the same as it used to be. For example, the sports media does not report on issues like player and coaches clashing with players or those kinds of issues. Sports reporting has become PR for the teams and nothing more. Not just at the Medicine Hat News but everywhere. There are exceptions to the rule but there are exceptions to every rule.
Newspapers need advertising dollars as their revenues have shrunk drastically. The News and other media companies need that revenue. So, they've become cheerleaders for sports teams and not reporters. Back in the day, Allen Panzeri, who was an excellent and upcoming sports reporter at The News, would get into screaming matches with Paddy Ginnell that you could hear from the lower concourse at the Arena ( yeah, I have been a Tiger fan since the Seventies). Panzeri was eventually banned but other reporters were allowed to report on the Tigers.
Those were the old days when news and sports were actually reported on and there was investigative journalism. That's period of newspaper history is gone. But we do have forums like this that have replaced old media.
Worded my post wrong. Schneider didn't play good enough to warrant a starting job
Wow, Daniel Baker with three goals, nine points and 19 PMs in five games for Northern X-Treme AAA Midget. Kid is to good for Midget. Should be here. Or did he ask out too?
Stupid comment above. Baker is only 16 and wouldn't be getting playing time here. No point in letting him sit in the stands.
He was rated the sixth best rookie D-men in the DUB and is better than what is here now. All of the rest of the D-men rated are as top rookies are playing including several 16-year-olds. He would be sitting in the seats not because he not good enough, but because of Clouston. So, actually your comment is kind of stupid.
I'm not saying baker is bad I'm just saying he's only 16 so the door is open to send him back. The guys you should be concerned about are longo, Clayton and craven because they are here and only have played in a handful of games and they are all 17. One guy getting sent back to midget shouldn't concern you that much.
Now that we have started this though I have to ask what your top 6 D would look like if you were in charge.
Sure, 16-year-olds generally belong in midget. But there are cases where elite players should be playing ahead of the Dalton Galley's of the world. And, yeah, he would be sitting in the stands, but that's because Clouston doesn't look at the big picture, which why a lot of people want his ass fired.
Here's a list of D-men playing and playing regularly as 16-year olds. Scouts considered Baker ahead of most of these guys. I looked at some of the other 16-year-old D-men to see what they were doing in Midget. Not one player drafted in the first three round in '16 is putting up even a point a game. Baker is putting up two points per game.
Sixteen year D-men olds playing regularly in the DUB: Bowen Byram, (Giants), Matthew Robertson (Oil Kings); Kaedan Korczak (Rockets); Braeden Schneider (Wheat Kings), Rhett Reinhart, (Raiders); Jackson Van de Leest (Hitmen); Jake Lee (Thunderbirds),Mitchell Brown (Americans).
I would have Baker and Clayton in my top 7 and trade or release Galley and trade either McPhee or MacPherson to make room for these two kids. I would bet my next paycheck that Clayton and Baker are better than two of the three guys I mentioned here after Christmas (if they're getting regular ice). There's usually enough room for seven D-men as injuries take their toll as the year goes on.
Okay I can agree with most of what what you've said. I agree I would have guys like Clayton and baker playing in the top 6. I agree that with all the ice they would get, they would really improve by the time January and February comes around.
I agree that gally should probably be moved. He's 19 and the younger guys are already better than him.
However the problem with keeping baker is that you then have 3 17 year olds and 1 16 year that you need to get ice time. By sending baker back it makes it more achievable to try and rotate the 17 year olds while still ensuring baker gets ice time albeit at a lower level.
I think like I mentioned above the real problem is the fact that we have played 14 games.
Clayton has played in 8 games
Longo had played in 4
Craven has played in 3 (I know he was injured)
I think all these guys have potential and it sucks seeing them in the stands so much.
He can only coach 19 and 20 year olds until they have had enough of him and his bullying
Just adding my two cents.
I haven't seen Longo much but from the limited time I have seen him, Clayton is better, so if Baker is as good as what is being claimed by the previous poster, Longo can play in the AJHL. I haven't seen Craven play, so can't comment but he is listed as 145 lbs, which would make him the lightest defensemen in the league. You need to be bigger than that in this league. I wouldn't doubt if it was accurate as Murray was really skinny when he first came up to the Tigers.
Longo is prob heading back to Vancouver and that’s rite fully so for team and himself , has a chance at it next year if they keep him
I am so sad, so much drama, so much disappointment with this team, so much lack of faith in Clouston and concern he is ruining my team and hockey for so many kids. It has made me less interested in the Tigers. I have not gone to the last few games because I care less. We have discussed not renewing our tickets. We watched through thick and thin over the years and I have never felt so upset with the team situation. I wish it would change. Would be nice if Clouston took a look in the mirror and assessed what he could do better. Just sad to see the team become a not-to-pay-in sort of place.
Longo is out craven is in
Comically, the Tigers are doing a Big Brothers, Big Sisters thing tonight. So owners who pay for and approve of abuse and bullying within the dressing room are comically supporting a program to support children from difficult and abusive home. Bravo Tigers, so beautifully backwards.
I went to all the intersquad games in trainging camp and I watched all the games Longo has played and although he hasn't had much ice in those games, I've been impressed. I personally think if hes good enough to be an everyday player. Obviously this is just my opinion and people may disagree but that's just what I think.
Clayton, Craven and Longo all have good things in their game and if they get the ice I feel they could surprise people.
What you guys are describing is the exact difference between Willie D, and Clouston....and why I feel half of this "conflict" is happening...
Defence
Top 4
nassen, Quenneville, Rubins, Macpherson
Middle 2 (depth guys)
Gally(19), MacPhee(18)
Young prospects
Longo, Clayton, Craven, baker
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If Willie was here, he would have traded 1 of (Gally/Macpherson) last season and recouped a 5th round pick. He might have traded MacPhee this season for a 3-5th round pick.
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Spot duty 19yr olds don't sell. Spot duty 18yr olds are often sold because they sometimes work out in different environments. Its why we got Hayden Ostir
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That would allow Longo, Clayton, Craven, Baker to compete for the 3rd line spot this season.
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Lets hope that Clayton this season, or baker next season won't turn into the next Hobbs.
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For those that love facts and data...Willies 2007 WHL Championship TEAM that almost won MC:
Keatley 20, Holfeld 17
Russel 19, Schlemko 19, Baldwin 19, M.Sauer 19, Benfeld 18, Glass 18, Isherwood 17, Brown 17
Stevens 20, Dorsett 20, Helm 19, J.Sauer 19, Todd 19, Rumple 19, Undershoot 19, Swynsun 18, Bosch 18, Lowry 18, Ennis 17, Grant 17, Hickmott 16 (29GP)
But I guess Clouston loves his older teams and Willie developed young kids
Baker continues to prove himself as a player. He will dominate and continue to develop in his league. What is sad is that obviously not all players had to prove themselves in their prior seasons the way he has. Has anyone looked at Cravens last few seasons?...injured often
Who cares how a player does in midget , if he was as good as u are stating “WOW” would he not be playing junior level -stupid comment reply to anon 12:44
Just as a quick comparison in the 2007 championship season the 16+17s received 312 games of experience under willie.
Last year the young-ins got 249 games, excluding goalies....
Getting Icetime numbers would be a much better indication...
That makes sense for sure. But that's also why Ennis had 3 goals in 43 games as a 16 year old and 0 points in 7 playoff games - Willie couldn't find ice time for him. It certainly wasn't because of his lack of talent.
Ice time would be the best way to track progress for sure
Now that Williams is away to team canada be interesting to see what line changes are made any idea what the best options might be ?
There was a lot of movement in 05-06 when Ennis got 43 games....
Marek Curilla traded, Matt Sokol traded, kyle annesley released, Matt lowry traded, Clinton pettapeice released, Jordie Deagle traded, spencer mcavoy traded...
Willie Made some room for Ennis
That was the year the Tigers traded for Jerrid Sauer. Sauer along with Colton Grant and Scott Wasden were defensive forwards.
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I think its preferable for a 16 to only play in 40-50 games. In 80% of cases, the game is too quick for them, and they aren't physically mature enough yet. Only the strongest and fastest blooming players should be getting regular minutes. Otherwise, I feel they should be the 7th defenceman, or the 13,14th forward.
I remember distinctly that Ennis got crunched multiple times at 16. At 17 he started avoiding them a lot more. Ennis was also a player who benefitted by having a late birthday in his draft year. (90 points in his 18yr old year), looks way better than 50 at 17...anywho I'm rambling.
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17's should be getting consistent ice time. The ones that show potential in the 2-3rd lines. The average or late bloomers on the 4th lines....
Then by 18 if they are getting jumped by new prospects, look at moving them. Don't put them on the 4th line and take ice away from the development of the young players.
I feel it promotes competition and growth and if the scouting department is as good as what the Tigers have...... You will continually produce extra picks and players.
But Willie would have had 18's and 19's on his 4th line on '07.
Sauer (19) and Lowry (18) with Grant I'm assuming but I don't remember. Hickmott didn't play playoffs (2 games) and on D - Brown played 2 and Isherwood none. Which means out of 696 man games in playoffs that year, Willies 16's/17's played 49 if we leave Holfeld out of equation.
I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I'm not a lover or hater of any coach.
Just presenting numbers
Correction. 49 of 437 if you leave back up goalie out.
True, I was going to say that.
In a championship year, it makes sense to go with older veterans, the experience gives extra oomph. In the long run, it hurts the development of the younger players.
Its a trade-off and Important question every year.
I would be really behind Tigers trading MacPherson or Gally. I think they are good but would like to see a young guy get time.
Well just ass we seem to be talking about it Trevor Longo has been reassigned. According to Ryan McCracken on Twitter. I'm assuming he's going to go play in the bchl for Langley but I'm not sure about that.
Steele and Anderson in my opinion are rite behind him , white should give them a ride and all go to Langley
White is going no where except to the first line lol
"I have only one rule and that is keep insults off the comments page. Comments will be deleted if they contain any derogatory words or insults a user/player/coach etc."
It's very interesting how this doesn't apply to White
People have also used some nasty words that involved Clouston. Just saying.
Anon 2:42 I would 100% agree. I'm also one that thinks that the younger players should pencil in before Jaeger but let's remember he's not the villain here. He's a player like hundreds before him chasing a dream. It would appear though that the moderator of this board has a double standard when it comes to him.
Get rid of both of them and everything will be just fine
There have been a couple nasty comments I've removed, but like most of you I have a day job and don't monitor the blog 24/7. If something comes up you feel should be removed please let me know and I'll take a close look at it.
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There is often a fine line and I can't please everyone, but due to the nature of what happened with Fischer, I have loosened the guidelines for more raw opinions. I expected more controversy, but I have been pleased that for the most part, people have been fairly respectful even with this heated issue.
Josh Williams broke his collar bone at the world under seventeens.
Cloustons fault someone had to say it.
Damn that really sucks. Wish him a speedy recovery.
On a positive note Shaw was seen walking around without crutches after the gams tonight.
Where did you hear about Williams injury?
Collar bone min 8 but more like 12 weeks and never heals 100%
I hope that isn't true about Williams :(
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Speaking of white, I really liked the Heathcote, White, Rybinksi line. Having a vet with the kids makes sense. They looked good together.
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Preziuso is finding his grove, great to see!
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Williams all but confirmed he suffered a injury with his tweet.
I don’t think it’s the moderator’s fault. More just calling out those who are quick to call Clouston a bully based on rumours, yet themselves bully 16-20 year old kids behind an anonymous handle.
All but confirmed Williams suffered a broken collarbone because his teammate isnt smart (no idea who it was) and hit him from behind in a practice. Say what you want but doing that in practice is very idiotic.
So much for the Tigers being a joke. Everett has some major problems too.
Ethan Browne left the team after requesting a trade because of ice time, and was granted his wish to return home.
Mark Liwiski has been suspended indefinitely for violating team rules.
Sucks about Williams. I hear a broken collarbone injury takes anywhere from 4-8 weeks to heal.
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Everett has a very young team
4 - 16 yr olds
7 - 17yr olds
Only 2 19yr olds....
Both players appear to be the odd healthy scratch and behind the others on the depth charts. Suspended indefinitely is quite intense. Wonder what happened.
No smartass comment like Cloustons fault? Someone had to say it lol
Again when will people realize that Quenneville absolutely blows as a defense man? Another point to illustrate this...yep he's amazing as he played in the Canada Russia series (pffft). He was virtually non existent in Moose Jaw and in Swift Current he proceeds to score 2 goals AND go -2. Note Russia only scored 4 goals. There's no way he will EVER win a regular job in the NHL he will get exposed playing against elite talent.
Ouch. What are u meaning he should be a forward - he seems to have a few goals from the point this year ? Pretty harsh stating he sucks - is your kid a d man on the tigers ? My goodness
Anon 7:25, you do realize that +/- isn't a stat when a team scores a power play goal which both of his goals were. He was on for two goals against, a shorthanded one and an even strength one. You also failed to mention he was a +3 in game one in Moose Jaw.
Anon7:25 ? He’s playing for team whl ? I guess the guys who are picking the teams all got the wool pulled right over there eyes , and the professional scouts for the nhl don’t have a clue what they are seeing . What a comment ! As for the other comment ,above who is your kid ?
Shaun Clouston trolling us now? lmao
I think we are losing sight of the fact that the Tigers are winning! Two big wins last weekend. The team has adapted to play a harder nosed game. Somebody on the coaching staff has them using deflections a lot, and it's been effective. They aren't as flashy as last year, but the wins are coming. I don't think they will do much in playoffs this year, but they will be there. We got a young team with some talent in the mix. Go Tigers!
Thoughts on the rookies this year.
I've been impressed with lots of the rookies.
Williams is going to be a stud
Really liked what I've seen from Rybinksi
Heathcote I've been surprised by and I think he's going to be a good player for years to come
Anderson and Steele I'm undecided on. Haven't seen enough from them yet to give my comments.
What are u really liking about rybinski? He won’t go anyware near the corner , has little points and gives the puck away all most every shift - l will watch Friday game closely , just to see if Iam wrong
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